Snipers? Options

[Fuddy]

This has bothered me for a couple months.

There's not necessarily a lack of rangers, but more so a lack of rangers that know what they're doing (snipers). If you watch our piles, there are a lot of arrows hitting the main target. I've watched videos of fights that we have lost and fall in leaders of the opposing clan don't even have to pray when leading a pile because no one is shooting them, yet enemies are ALWAYS on our leaders and it affects our organization.

At the time being, I don't think many DI Rangers are fulfilling their role as rangers. Too many enemy mages are going untouched and too many enemy fall ins are being successful. Imo this can be changed with only 5-10 snipers. We don't need a "unit," just organized, dedicated snipers.

Assuming we all agree up to this point, this next part is where I get stuck. How do we inform DI Members and FA's on how to snipe? How do we urge them to pick up a bow?

Such posts have been made regarding ranging such as:
http://www.di-rs.com/forums/index.php?show...=49190&st=0
and
http://www.di-rs.com/forums/index.php?show...=46587&st=0

My only thought is that we now have a good amount of potential fall in leaders that will be at pk trips. It's probably worthwhile to use a couple of us to upbring an organized group of snipers until our rangers can learn to snipe without guidance.

Potential Problems?
1) Turnouts may be too low to take away 5-10 people from our main KO pile.
2) People may see ranging as a "cheap death" and eventually abuse it.
- This happened to Corruption recently. Like half of their members showed up as rangers against VR and they got ass raped. I assume our rune policy will keep members in check, though.

I'm not entirely sure what I mean by this, but hopefully you all can build off it. Thanks

This post has been edited by Fuddy: Oct 29 2007, 10:41 PM

[Metallica100]

Maybe there shouldn't be a 'unit' so there's no leader but rangers go to a different TS channel and we have someone picking out mages and calling on TS and the location. We could destroy the opposition rangers as well if we were all on the same page.

[Brieanna]

We need good turnouts in order for this to be really effective. I like Lukes idea of seperating the rangers into their own TS channel and let them scout the battlefield and do what needs to be done as a group without the interruption of the rest of us. We need to start getting proper turnouts to trips though so we can sacrifice these people. Basically we need to resurrect what Jason created for this exact problem. It worked very well for him when his "unit" was out in full force.


There are a few regular rangers like Zpara that actually range properly, I know it's common sense to most of us reading this but maybe we need to resort to making a guide on what we expect to be done as a ranger now since alot of the new people just aren't getting it.

[Filed]

I was thinking of adding style guides to the f2p guide. But to write it out, theres really not much to say.

Anyhows, I just feel rangers just arnt doing their bit. They dont really realise the damage they can do to other fall ins, and the damage they can prevent to our fall ins.

We really dont have enough opts to start up a ranger unit, but possibly some of the rangers can stand back and hit the leaders by themselves.

Theres only 2 ways to learn things; Education & Experience.

Education - Write a post, make a video or a guide. Tell them what to do. Once they have the basics down they can get experience themselves from trips and work it up.

Experience - Best thing for this would be a ranger unit. But we dont really have the opts at PKs to make one. Obviously, this one is preferable

Only way of improving rangers right now is probably though education. Of course, tell them what to do and when whilst their getting used to it, but hopefully it will become routene soon enough.

This post has been edited by Filed: Oct 29 2007, 11:29 PM

[Elliot]

There cant be a unit because we dont have enough.

and I started saying on TS for rangers to go off and snipe mages/leaders which they are doing.


The soloution to everything would be more members.

[Winzent]

I don't mind it, I normally bring a bow and hide top when I know they got a lot of mages, but yeh, we don't have a lot of members atm, but we should still have maybe a range unit of like 5 ppl who focus on mages only?
A lot of the clans we fight have so many mages all time because we don't really have any range unit.

[Joe]

I've told people on ts, if they're ranging they shouldn't be hitting the main pile they should be only ranging fall in leaders or mages.

The reason people don't want to do this (well the only one I can come up with) is that as we have a rune requirment, standing out in the open (ie sniping) is gonna mean a lot of deaths and therefore is very expensive. If you look at the clans who use snipers the most (all the top clans except RsD, don't have a range rune requirment and even RsD only have to have one item they don't protect).

An obvious solution is to drop the rune requirment for rangers and/or mages (might increase the number of binders, although theres no reason they shouldnt bring rune) but I dunno whether Brian would want that.

[Filed]

Eventhough its not much, I quickly added a section to the f2p guide, "Your role"

Hopefully it gets read.

http://www.di-rs.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=36913
If anythings missing or you think should be added/changed tell me

People not knowing their roles seems to be a big problem in f2p at the moment, Not sure if its needed to make a seperate post on it inclusing their roles and what they should do. Because really, I dont think people read the f2p guide through

This post has been edited by Filed: Oct 31 2007, 04:09 AM

[Brieanna]

It's a really good guide Filed, we need Brian to make a post in Gen Members though and refer people to it, and emphasize the "know your role" point since we've all agreed that the ranger issue needs to be addressed now. Unfortunately people just don't take it upon themselves to read guides and absorb the info. When Brian makes a post people read it though, so Brian perhaps you can address the issue in a post and also link them to this guide?

[Filed]

Cheers Brie,

I was thinking about a few things we do, or dont do at wars. Which caould be pretty effective;

Wait for them to come to us, on a hill. Every time we do this, it messes them up. Its like once we're killed their leader, we're at a loss of who to attack next. Its like that for the other clan, everyone runs in and its hard for them to find a target.

When the above happens to us, we should all look in the same place, or atleast the same direction - To keep orginisation up. For example, if everyone looked north, most of people would more than likly see the same person standing out. Hence keeping the orginisation up. Ive been wanting something like this in place for a little while, since it is, a big problem, we cant afford seperate piles.

And lastly, people alertness. Well, self explanitory really. For example, if im leading a pile. I run in, attack the leader and call the name and run off. It works pretty well for me since i normally get away, or atleast never get killed on the spot. But, people are still following me. I mean if i got time to hold control, run in, attack the person and run away, surely they can just attack.

But in the end, its making people do it thats the problem

Yea i know its not about snipers but yea:$ seemed appropriate

This post has been edited by Filed: Oct 31 2007, 11:57 AM

[Fuddy]

^ Going off that.

Our transitions suck compared to other clans Everyone always frays off in different directions. I like what Filed said in telling everyone to look north after we get a kill for either:
1) The fall in leader
or
2) The next target

Ignore everything else unless it is completely obvious - like a random stray member from the enemy clan right in front of us then yeah everyone should jump on it.

Wouldn't seem too hard to follow.

& another thing for snipers; one way to teach would be to just yell on TS that rangers need to be around the enemy mages/leaders. See a ranger on our main target and yell or PM them. I think they would get the point after being yelled at a few times lol - but yeah a post is needed on Gen Members before we can enforce I think.

This post has been edited by Fuddy: Nov 1 2007, 05:05 PM

[@Brian]

I would think we need at least 70 people before we can set aside say 10 people into a dedicated range unit, and ontop of that, we'd need a strong leader for it.

[Fuddy]

I would think we need at least 70 people before we can set aside say 10 people into a dedicated range unit, and ontop of that, we'd need a strong leader for it.

Right. But can our current rangers work away from our main pile? Or do you think that that would take away too much from our piling.

I think the main issue right now is that we only have Implicity, Zparanoid, NNG and occasionally Foyboy (I'm sure I missed a couple, but those are the only three I've noticed strongly) as our only snipers. 70 people or not, this isn't enough. Implicity got somewhere between 30-40 kills I believe against RSD as a sniper. I can only imagine the success they could have if 2 or 3 more people turned to sniping. We have the highest range level average of any top 5 clan by far, yet we're the clan that uses it the least (half our clan has 99 range). ?
-----

So I guess the point of this particular post is: Should we tell ALL of our current rangers that show up on Saturday to work away from our main target? Or to let them stay with the main target to assist in the KO's.

We're somewhat running out of time and I think we need to get the Ranger Situation in play before Saturday's fight - to see how it goes.

This post has been edited by Fuddy: Nov 2 2007, 02:48 AM

[Filed]

Me and others feel that there are a few things that need to be looked at in F2P, not only that we feel we have come up with a few solutions. This fight with Titans on saterday; I want to see what we're really capable of.

In no particluar order;

Turn-outs

We currently have 130 members, not including retired. It takes 100 people to make 300 opts. Yet, we get an everage of ~180 - Thats only 60 people. Less than half our memberlist.
We could do SOO much more if we had the options. We could bring back the ranger unit, and even move on to having 2 piles if we have enough. Overall it would help greatly.

Spamming

Spamming has got a little better recently, but I feel some poeple dont see the importance of it. When you see the opposing clan with a huge spam tower, personally, i think "fuck". It gives the illusion they have alot of people. You need to spam. If your lazy, get shortykeys - its on my guide.
Why spam? Boost our morale. Lower their morale. Let our members know where we are. Put the effort in, because in the end if you dont put the effort in nothing comes out of anything.

Alertness

Alertness. I swear some of you are sleepscaping. People seem not to put the effort in to actually try, have some heart. It doesnt take much. People not listening to teamspeak, people not falling in, people on other piles. Just wake up and look at the situation.

Knowing your role

MELEE/TANK

As a melee you are considered a TANK. Your aim is to last as long as possible when being piled. Take away the enemys on you FROM ours. Delay them. To make sure you do this the best possable way, ensure you have the best type of food (Look in techneiqes).
This is what makes up the mass of the clan. This should be one sole unit which kills off the enemys fast and efficently. DO NOT MAKE OTHER PILES. Stay close to eachother, stay on the same people and we cant go far wrong. As the mass of the clan, we MUST stick together. It confuses them when we run in with ALL of us there more than just half of us.

In short:
-Delay
-Tank
-One unit
-Mass of the unit
-Be where your told to be

RANGER

As a ranger you are able to do alot of things. This style is MASSIVLY underestimated by most DI at this piont. You can snipe their fall ins, defend our fall ins, annoy and kill their magers. Really, do ALOT of damage. Rangers are kind of hard to explain in where they stand within the run-in; they can be in alot of places: Our pile (Defending). Their pile (Killing their leader). Killing mages (Always helps, slow reterners). The majority of people melee pray as soon as they are being attacked, use this to your advantage to get a quick KO group going. If there are enough opts, a ranger group can be made to maximise effects and to keep rangers on the same wave length. Remember, you are the cheapest death out of the 3 styles. Dont be affraid to stand out around the opposing clans fall ins, as they do to us. You know how efective it can be when done properly.

In short:
-Compramise to the situation (Defend/Attack)
-Snipe leaders & mages
-Possibly go around in a small group to really annoy the opposing clan

BINDER/MAGER

As a binder, your easily and quickly targeted. You should ALWAYS stay with the main pile. Rangers can be an annoyance, tell people whos on you and rangers should be able to get them off of you. Speak up if you need food - Binders will be helped as much as possible. You aim is simple - Stop the target from running. 1 bind, 2 hits repeat. Stick with the pile to make it is difficult as possible for the other clan to stop and target you. Make yourself look like a 1 itemer, level 3. Disgueses however unique they are can help alot.

In short:
-Hide
-Stay with the main group
-Call names of poeple binded on teamspeak
-Blend in


Something new

OK, it seems we have a problem when we clash with clans, we seem to get on different people once we have killed the leader, so lets try soething new. I dont see any reason why it wouldnt work in reducing the possibilitys of who we attack, making less piles, and keeping the orginisation up. Its pretty simple.

LOOK NORTH

If everyone looks the same way, chances are we will see the same person standing out, we'll be on the same wavelength. Of course, this rule cant be used all the time. But its a good general rule to keep orginisation up.
Clashes between both fall ins rarely happen by the fence so there really shouldnt be much problem here.
As simple as it is I feel it would REALLY help.


OK, now thats been said, lets see it in action against titans tomorrow and thoughout other fights.

Just wrote that up, Ill leave it in here for anyone to comment or add/change things for a while and then go from there

This post has been edited by Filed: Nov 2 2007, 12:16 PM

[Joe]

For the fight with SE, I think we should tell about 10 or so people who normally range to not fall in on us unless we specifically tell them to and should just go round sniping the fall in leaders/binders and when they get noticed just to book it away from Di and then start again.

It may sound useless but it pisses their binders off A LOT, and if its done enough they'll stop binding and thats part of the key to winning f2p fights.