Printable Version of Topic
Click here to view this topic in its original format
Damage Incorporated _ Fight Recap/Analysis/Tactics/Preparation _ P2P vs Revenant
Posted by: Ffs M8 May 7 2017, 02:46 AM
Alright we lost a fight against Revenant today and personally I'll take responsibility for getting us in that situation with none of our main callers or officials around. There were points in the fight where we did well and others where we did not. When it was just us and them north of 50 port we were holding our own until we were forced to hop to return because of Brut at 44s, AC at GDZ and then DF came in and 1itemed later on.
This was a fight that we were inevitably bound to lose and those other clans were partially responsible for this, but make no mistake. Revenant aren't the shit zerk clan we could have sent to the grave a few months back, they outpulled us, even with invites. We have been away from the bulk of P2P action for a little while now and they haven't. They aren't better than us at all but right now they're more active in general and more willing to engage. At the end of the day some people got some good experience dealing with that kind of situation, particularly myself, but use this as a wake up call.
The clan world is getting smaller, and that means that those that are left are growing larger as more and more clans have closed. We can't always rely on what we've been used to: key individuals being there to run the show, or 35-40 people being enough to deal with rival clans. Use this loss as a point to improve ourselves on, not a negative. Be active, work on recruitment to bolster our numbers, be willing to mage. This was just one fight and there are many ahead.
Posted by: Ben May 7 2017, 02:53 AM
tried to do what was outlined on the previous topics, but couldn't seem to catch any clumps because all our mages were being camped really hard. a few times we got them in good b piles which we need to take advantage (meaning return in chins and more importantly mage). also gotta be smarter about fights. we had around 40 which isn't bad but it's not gonna be enough with 50-55 rev + 1 itemers and shit on us. tried my best to call until my ts broke or something and audio wasn't working so i had to reset. good job rob and also the fas that stepped up a lot (even though they can't read)
Posted by: Offspring May 7 2017, 02:53 AM
That's why preps are important imo. I could have been there had I known we'd be pking at that time but since there wasn't an event posted I made other plans and couldn't get home in time. I'm sure others are in the same boat. We can pull pretty well, as we've been doing it a lot, but I think most people need that notice these days.
Posted by: Ben May 7 2017, 02:56 AM
That's why preps are important imo. I could have been there had I known we'd be pking at that time but since there wasn't an event posted I made other plans and couldn't get home in time. I'm sure others are in the same boat. We can pull pretty well, as we've been doing it a lot, but I think most people need that notice these days.
the only solution for that is to have more people. as said callers weren't on so we wouldn't have had a prep. and we can't prep for every fight we have. we just need to be able to pull more on spurs - which essentially means we need a bigger or more active ML (or both)
Posted by: Offspring May 7 2017, 02:57 AM
That's why preps are important imo. I could have been there had I known we'd be pking at that time but since there wasn't an event posted I made other plans and couldn't get home in time. I'm sure others are in the same boat. We can pull pretty well, as we've been doing it a lot, but I think most people need that notice these days.
the only solution for that is to have more people. as said callers weren't on so we wouldn't have had a prep. and we can't prep for every fight we have. we just need to be able to pull more on spurs - which essentially means we need a bigger or more active ML (or both)
Posted by: Rob May 7 2017, 03:00 AM
We can only blame so much on teams camping returns, or teams 1 iteming us. There were very little amount of magers at the start if any at all, people were not spamming at the beginning or near the end, and the intensity was that of a snail. Personally I wasn't ready to call and I kind of sucked if I'm being 100% honest. Other people stepped it up and that was sick. Overall this should be a wake up call, we can't AFK fights, not spam, and not mage. It's a recipe for disaster. Like I said we can only blame so much on being camped by other teams, at the end of it we were outperformed in every way. No excuses.
Posted by: Lolko May 7 2017, 03:01 AM
definitely a wake up call as said, although I would argue it was quite unlucky that none of our main callers were on during the fight obviously making it harder. We did well with bpiles and movement at certain times like we usually do but the silence in ts after each caller died let them get back in to it and recover each time. the df2 rats and ac kids siding with them definitely made it more difficult too. at the end of the day we are still better than them quality wise and we will prove it soon enough (hopefully with someone acing all the df2 and ac kids on us)
Posted by: Countymad May 7 2017, 03:05 AM
Realistically with their pull vs ours + multiple clans crashing us we were never going to win. That being said, there was still a lot more we could've and should've done. Rev will probably claim to be better than us/#2 P2P now and if we consistently perform like that vs them they deserve to be. Aa rhe cringy, but nevertheless true cloche goes when the going gets tough the tough get going and when as outnumbered as we were at times today, we needed more people stepping up to call on ts, we needed more people returning fast and ultimately we needed more people there in general.
It wasn't easy at all given the situation, so good job to all those who came start to finish and gave their all, but collectively we have to use this as a wakeup call. We can and need to be stronger.
Posted by: Ryan` May 7 2017, 03:16 AM
Offspring it was a spur that turned into something bigger than predicted. As someone else said, we cant prep every night.
It was unlucky to not have any callers on, think our TS attitude was poor and we couldnt really build any momentum. They camped our mages and we didnt have very good organization. It was a solid attempt from those that tried to call but we need more energy.
Posted by: Derfnop May 7 2017, 03:22 AM
We've historically pulled poorly on Sat and Friday nights...
This all seems to circle back to the endless "be smart" topics...
Posted by: Mage May 7 2017, 03:24 AM
Numbers were a problem today, and have been for the past month or so. We really need to start recruiting or we will start to become a laughing stock.
Posted by: Joko189 May 7 2017, 03:25 AM
Went out with my dad, don't know how this even happened.
Wouldn't look too much into it, it's a fight that was heavily in their favor and one we should've never gotten into to begin with.
Posted by: Offspring May 7 2017, 03:33 AM
Offspring it was a spur that turned into something bigger than predicted. As someone else said, we cant prep every night.
Posted by: 21O May 7 2017, 03:35 AM
Need more people MAGING. they clumped for the entirety of the fight with smite up.
alot of random shit being said on ts when it didnt need to be.
Posted by: Beverson May 7 2017, 03:36 AM
end of the day you can't fight 80 people with 40 in p2p
Posted by: dope city May 7 2017, 03:49 AM
Was a tough one but we did good for what we had.
Posted by: Ffs M8 May 7 2017, 04:04 AM
We've historically pulled poorly on Sat and Friday nights...
This all seems to circle back to the endless "be smart" topics...
Yep I lost sight of that today.
Posted by: Ryan` May 7 2017, 04:08 AM
hindsight is 20/20, just one minor loss on a p2p spur lets not blow it over proportion.
Posted by: Embraceanger May 7 2017, 04:37 AM
end of the day you can't fight 80 people with 40 in p2p
Posted by: Junior May 7 2017, 05:05 AM
Spam was terrible as usual, people getting 1 banged by 1/2/3 people all over the place. After looking at their rsc topic we lost 4 +1's to them, wtf is up with that? They had a lot of people camping godswords and pretty much the only time we took advanage of that was early in the fight when we were out numbered. We should of had everyone tanking to the north tree every time they were piled and just picking them off in piles
Posted by: Kurt May 7 2017, 05:28 AM
It's very rare that we lose a fight in p2p. Because of that a loss topic on zybez looks worse than it would for other clans. Just have to learn from this mistake and make sure it doesn't happen again in the future
Posted by: Maarten_dh May 7 2017, 06:36 AM
We've previously prepped for pk trips on saturdays because they tend to do the same. I assume we ran into a prepped pk trip of theirs and we were caught with our pants down.
Let's prep for next Saturday to put them back in their place.
Posted by: Paul May 7 2017, 08:07 AM
Agree with Joko I wouldn't think too much of the loss considering we've always stayed away from big Friday/Saturday night fights. So much of P2P is just about who has more numbers.
can't believe y'all @'d joko in the telegram though lol. Poor guy has to be around every time DI gets in a serious fight... Step it up individually smh
Posted by: Neil May 7 2017, 08:16 AM
can't believe y'all @'d joko in the telegram though lol. Poor guy has to be around every time DI gets in a serious fight... Step it up individually smh
Trolling or not that's the way it is until other callers are able to make members feel like they are going to win, give them that extra drive to go on. Motivation is huge and the way it is executed on TS by the caller is imperative. Obviously yourself and Joko are miles ahead of everybody else we have.
Wasn't there, too late and as it's already been pointed out the fight shouldn't have happened. The average age of our clan members is a lot higher than others, so Friday and Saturday nights are usually a no go, period. Likewise early GMT fights.
Posted by: D96 May 7 2017, 08:54 AM
Unfortunately wasn't able to make it, but looks like we got a lot to work on. The most important thing imo is to keep our heads up and look for the improvement where it's needed.
Posted by: James- May 7 2017, 09:04 AM
We've historically pulled poorly on Sat and Friday nights...
This all seems to circle back to the endless "be smart" topics...
Sums it up really. They're always out with big numbers on weekends, probably prepped.
Posted by: Mr K00lguy May 7 2017, 09:12 AM
I rather fight and lose a good battle than hide from everyone and everything.
Posted by: Brian May 7 2017, 11:10 AM
Seemed like a no win situation
Posted by: Focus Teemo May 7 2017, 12:09 PM
Need more people MAGING. they clumped for the entirety of the fight with smite up.
alot of random shit being said on ts when it didnt need to be.
Missed it as I was sleeping but this will always be on of our biggest problems, more people need to be willing to mage(and stay maging) in these high opt fights.
Posted by: Ryan` May 7 2017, 02:37 PM
I rather fight and lose a good battle than hide from everyone and everything.
Posted by: Junior May 7 2017, 02:48 PM
Also people need to start being more aware IN GAME. They had so many people in zgs just running around and koing people with range prayer on. Stop being lazy and switch your prayers accordingly
Posted by: Nullusion May 7 2017, 03:18 PM
That's why preps are important imo. I could have been there had I known we'd be pking at that time but since there wasn't an event posted I made other plans and couldn't get home in time. I'm sure others are in the same boat. We can pull pretty well, as we've been doing it a lot, but I think most people need that notice these days.
Yeah when we know there's a high possibility of a fight breaking out like this and plan for it I think we'd be in a much better situation. I couldn't make it home at all for this either but I saw the telegrams.
We've historically pulled poorly on Sat and Friday nights...
This all seems to circle back to the endless "be smart" topics...
Pretty much. I don't know that we need to avoid them all together, but we do need to know the situation we're in as always.
Numbers were a problem today, and have been for the past month or so. We really need to start recruiting or we will start to become a laughing stock.
I actually don't think it's been that bad as of late. Against CT we gained pretty quickly and swept them out with like 38 people. It's just the fact that much of our competition is getting 50+. If we get anything more than 40 that's usually a good number for a random highlight/telegram. I remember plenty of times when it'd be tough to get 25 people on, much less the numbers we're getting now. Recruiting is always a big thing but we're not in the worst situation right now.
Wasn't there, too late and as it's already been pointed out the fight shouldn't have happened. The average age of our clan members is a lot higher than others, so Friday and Saturday nights are usually a no go, period. Likewise early GMT fights.
I imagine a lot of people were already out drinking or dead asleep by the time this kicked off. Just kind of bad timing on a weekend.
You win some, you lose some. I look forward to running into these guys again. Especially after we put in work with CT the other day and Rev has been beefing with them. Would be nice to knock them off their high horse.
Posted by: Firestarone May 7 2017, 03:23 PM
It's Saturday, stop blaming the numbers game
Posted by: Countymad May 7 2017, 03:45 PM
The problem is Friday/Saturdays can arguably be the most active days in P2P so whilst no trips on fri/sat is great for people's social lives it can hurt our image and annoy the more active people who want to pk/be in the action.
Ray's said it himself, it was a bad call to fight given the circumstances, but that doesn't change the fact we could've and should've been tougher and performed better. Rev see themselves as #2 P2P and better than us now and if judged off just yesterday they are but we shouldn't be willing to just accept that.
I don't agree with being prep reliant because as a "top" P2P clan you will be weak without good short prep activity, but maybe as we focus on recruiting it isn't too bad of an idea to have at least a couple of prep pks a week. However, and importantly, maybe instead of going out on a random midweek night at some late time when the wildy is largely dead or there's just small teams out we should instead prep for more active days like Saturdays, especially if we know Rev/CT etc. will be out.
Posted by: Ben May 7 2017, 04:08 PM
I actually don't think it's been that bad as of late. Against CT we gained pretty quickly and swept them out with like 38 people. It's just the fact that much of our competition is getting 50+. If we get anything more than 40 that's usually a good number for a random highlight/telegram. I remember plenty of times when it'd be tough to get 25 people on, much less the numbers we're getting now. Recruiting is always a big thing but we're not in the worst situation right now.
40 isn't good enough when clans have closed and mass joins have happened. Nearly every other clan is pulling 40 easy now. It's all relative.
Posted by: Brian May 8 2017, 08:49 AM
Well the thing people aren't thinking about when looking at these guys numbers is that they're on prep vs us unprepped. We might still outpull them unprepped but for Rev Saturday night prep is like our Sunday prep.
Kinda like Offspring said really doesn't matter if we know the circumstances ourselves, we still lost and that's all the outside world sees.
Posted by: Fight May 8 2017, 06:48 PM
I rather fight and lose a good battle than hide from everyone and everything.
Powered by Invision Power Board (http://www.invisionboard.com)
© Invision Power Services (http://www.invisionpower.com)